Ordinary Meeting - April 2024
Date: Thursday, 18 April 2024 at 10:00AM
Location: Noosa Shire Council Chambers , 9 Pelican Street , Tewantin , QLD 4565 , Australia
Organiser: Noosa Shire Council
Duration: 00:45:59
Synopsis: Strong financial performance, Audit and risk plans adopted, Botanic Gardens stakeholder group amid Seqwater constraints, Expenses policy updated, Legal counsel and consultants questioned, NRCMP consultation pending.
Meeting Attendees
Councillors
Frank Wilkie Karen Finzel Amelia Lorentson Jessica Phillips Brian Stockwell Tom Wegener Nicola Wilson
Executive Officers
Acting Chief Executive Officer Larry Sengstock Director Community Services Kerri Contini Director Development & Regulation Richard MacGillivray Acting Director Infrastructure Services Shaun Walsh
AI-Generated Meeting Insight
Key Decisions & Discussions Frank Wilkie: Council approved remote attendance for Amelia Lorentson under s254K Local Government Regulation 2012 (Qld), carried unanimously (00:43; Minutes Attendance/Resolution Item 1). Council: Adopted Audit & Risk Committee recommendations incl. QAO 2024 External Audit Plan, internal audit updates, risk/BCP update, EOFY timetable (02:10–02:49; Item 8.1). Pauline Coles: YTD Mar operating revenue is $1.8m above budget; operating expenditure $1.5m under; operating position $3.3m above budget; cash holdings $139m (with $30m in high-yield TDs), noting rates cycle and $17.6m QRA advance (03:08–05:32; Item 9.1). Pauline Coles: Clarified difference: “unconstrained” relates to operating surplus components; “unrestricted” refers to available cash (~$4m) for emergent or co-funded capital works beyond planned programs (06:00–07:14; Item 9.1). Pauline Coles: Asset Sustainability Ratio behind target due to renewal timing and carryovers; ratio excludes QRA projects; program prioritises renewals to meet the 90% depreciation benchmark over the cycle (08:59–09:59; Item 9.1). Richard MacGillivray: Development assessment revenue lagging due to market softening and recognition timing; local laws revenue impacted by a system upgrade affecting infringement processing; remediation underway (16:35–17:20; Item 9.1). Brian Stockwell: Noted steep growth since 2020 across operating revenue, capital revenue/expenditure, planning/building income, caravan parks, and waste; flagged imminent policy choice: rates increases vs. new revenue vs. service reductions (19:20–21:25; Item 9.1). Council: Established Noosa Botanic Gardens Master Plan Stakeholder Reference Group; appointed Jessica Phillips (Chair), Amelia Lorentson , Karen Finzel (21:51–24:18; Item 9.2). Shaun Walsh: Confirmed staged engagement via Stakeholder Reference Group then broader community consultation; highlighted Seqwater easement and need for collaborative approvals; exploring traineeships/volunteers to supplement resourcing (21:51–30:11; Item 9.2). Council: Confirmed extensive councillor appointments to internal/external groups, including disaster, climate, housing, tourism, biosphere, and regional bodies; two-year review norm with flexibility to vary earlier (31:58–39:20; Item 9.3). Council: Adopted updated Councillors’ Expenses Reimbursement and Provision of Facilities Policy; introduced council-owned laptops; allowances unchanged (phones $2,880 p.a.; vehicle $5,000) (39:52–43:19; Item 9.4). Contentious / Transparency Matters Amelia Lorentson: Probed ROI of the new in-house legal counsel; Pauline Coles reported no major cost reduction yet due to scope limits (DA matters still external) and ongoing specialist outsourcing; noted internal risk mitigation and ~50 hours logged (12:58–14:02; Item 9.1). Amelia Lorentson: Questioned potential over-reliance on external consultants; officers noted diversity/specialisation and vacancy backfilling; no prior deep-dive report to Council identified (14:02–16:08; Item 9.1). Public Q (Andrew McCarthy): Called for full NRCMP consultation by July; Council said new term induction underway and next steps to be considered in coming weeks; all appropriate methods, incl. potential forum, to be considered (43:49–45:14; Item 11.1). Process note: Mayor explained this first-term Ordinary Meeting bypassed usual committee cycle, which typically surfaces contention before formal decisions (45:14–end; Closing remarks). Legal / Risk Frank Wilkie: Remote attendance approval explicitly grounded in s254K LGR 2012; unanimous compliance recorded (00:43; Item 1). Council: Endorsed QAO 2024 External Audit Plan and risk/BCP updates, reinforcing financial reporting integrity and continuity planning (02:10–02:49; Item 8.1). Pauline Coles: New inclusion of financial sustainability indicators in monthly reporting elevates statutory-focus performance monitoring (03:08–03:20; Item 9.1). Shaun Walsh: Seqwater easement over Botanic Gardens requires Seqwater endorsement of site works; water quality protection for Lake Macdonald is a determinative constraint (28:59–30:11; Item 9.2). Revenue risk: DA/local laws revenue softness from market conditions and system transition underlines forecasting and enforcement risk exposure (16:35–17:20; Item 9.1). Policy risk balance: Expenses Policy holds allowances flat while adding council-owned laptops; retains property/IT security controls by keeping devices as Council property (39:52–43:19; Item 9.4). Environmental Concerns (Noosa River & Botanic Gardens) Public Q (Andrew McCarthy): Pressed for full, costed NRCMP by July 2024 referencing an Oct 2023 procedural motion; officers committed to consider next steps and inclusive engagement methods shortly (43:49–45:14; Item 11.1). Shaun Walsh: Botanic Gardens master plan to integrate funding strategies, operational resourcing implications, and explore traineeships/volunteers to sustain standards (24:53–26:32; Item 9.2). Karen Finzel: Sought clarity on Seqwater’s role; officers confirmed easement oversight, water-quality priorities, and potential co-funding history (28:37–30:11; Item 9.2). Brian Stockwell: Emphasised opportunities for conservation outcomes (e.g., macadamia recovery plan species) and visitor dispersal benefits from an enhanced Gardens (30:14–31:30; Item 9.2). Governance & Appointments Larry Sengstock: Detailed councillor appointments across internal/external groups; noted routine two-year review with capacity to vary earlier if needed (31:58–39:20; Item 9.3). Council: Assignments include disaster management, climate response (Steering and Community Reference Groups), Housing Stakeholder Group, Destination Management PCG, Tourism Noosa (observer), and regional bodies (35:00–37:27; Item 9.3). Jessica Phillips: Appointed Chair for both Noosa Botanic Gardens Stakeholder Group and Noosa Drive Pathway Project Reference Group, strengthening project oversight (23:14–23:38; 35:00–36:41; Items 9.2, 9.3). Financial Performance Highlights Pauline Coles: Capital program: 48% of four-year program spent YTD excluding disaster works ($22m of $45.9m; additional $10m committed); QRA disaster spend $22m (03:08–05:32; Item 9.1). Pauline Coles: Interest revenue and sales of goods/services each up ~$1.2m; other revenue +$0.4m; DA fees and some charges lower than expected (03:08–04:20; Item 9.1). Operations: Underspend driven by vacancies (employee costs) and slight materials/services underspend; surplus cash above 3-month operating buffer (03:08–05:32; Item 9.1). Waste revenue: Gate fees and recyclables included in sales; Chair confirmed scope (17:20–18:45; Item 9.1).
Official Meeting Minutes
MINUTES Ordinary Meeting Thursday, 18 April 2024 10:00 AM Council Chambers, 9 Pelican Street, Tewantin Crs Frank Wilkie (Chair), Karen Finzel, Amelia Lorentson, Jessica Phillips, Brian Stockwell, Tom Wegener, Nicola Wilson “Noosa Shire – different by nature” ORDINARY MEETING MINUTES 18 APRIL 2024 1. ATTENDANCE & APOLOGIES COUNCILLORS Cr Frank Wilkie (Chair) Cr Karen Finzel Cr Amelia Lorentson (via Microsoft Teams) Cr Jessica Phillips Cr Brian Stockwell Cr Tom Wegener Cr Nicola Wilson EXECUTIVE Acting Chief Executive Officer Larry Sengstock Director Community Services Kerri Contini Director Development & Regulation Richard MacGillivray Acting Director Infrastructure Services Shaun Walsh Council Resolution Moved: Cr Frank Wilkie Seconded: Cr Karen Finzel That in accordance with Section 254K of the Local Government Regulation, Cr Lorentson is approved to attend the Meeting dated 18 April 202 via Microsoft Teams. Carried unanimously. 2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES 2.1. ORDINARY MEETING 15 FEBRUARY 2024 Council Resolution Moved: Cr Frank Wilkie Seconded: Cr Karen Finzel The Minutes of the Ordinary Meeting held on 15 February 2024 be received and confirmed. Carried unanimously. 2.2. POST ELECTION MEETING 8 APRIL 2024 Council Resolution Moved: Cr Frank Wilkie Seconded: Cr Tom Wegener The Minutes of the Post Election Meeting held on 8 April 2024 be received and confirmed Carried unanimously. ORDINARY MEETING MINUTES 18 APRIL 2024 3. MAYORAL MINUTES Nil. 4. PETITIONS Nil. 5. NOTIFIED MOTIONS Nil. 6. PRESENTATIONS Nil. 7. DEPUTATIONS Nil. 8. CONSIDERATION OF COMMITTEE REPORTS 8.1. AUDIT & RISK COMMITTEE REPORT - 23 FEBRUARY 2024 ATTENDANCE & APOLOGIES COMMITTEE MEMBERS (External) Tim Cronin, Chair (External) Ian Rushworth Cr Clare Stewart Cr Tom Wegener NON-COMMITTEE MEMBERS/OFFICERS Acting Chief Executive Officer, Larry Sengstock Director Corporate Services, Trent Grauf Director Infrastructure Services, Shaun Walsh Executive Officer, Internal Audit & Corporate Performance, Debra Iezzi Governance Manager, Diana Stewart Financial Services Manager (Acting), Pauline Coles ICT Manager, Ryan Smith ORDINARY MEETING MINUTES 18 APRIL 2024 Governance Officer, Jonci Wolff Infrastructure Planning Officer, Melissa Sheppard Workplace Health & Safety Officer, Craig Hodgson ICT ERP Coordinator, Gillian Griffin KPMG, Thomas Cook (Microsoft Teams) KPMG, Erin Neville-Stanley (Microsoft Teams) QAO, Chantelle Hanna (Microsoft Teams) Pitcher Partners, Robyn Cooper (Microsoft Teams) COMMITTEE RECOMMENDATIONS TO COUNCIL 1. QAO 2024 EXTERNAL AUDIT PLAN That Council note the 2024 External Audit Plan provided by the Queensland Audit Office (QAO) and KPMG to the Audit & Risk Committee meeting dated 23 February 2024. 2. QAO UPDATE That Council note the Briefing Paper provided by the Queensland Audit Office (QAO) and KPMG to the Audit & Risk Committee meeting dated 23 February 2024. 3. INTERNAL AUDIT ACTIONS UPDATE & INTERNAL AUDIT PLAN That Council note the report by the Executive Officer Internal Audit and Organisational Performance to the Audit and Risk Committee meeting dated 23 February 2024 regarding an update of Internal Audit Matters. 4. RISK MANAGEMENT & BCP UPDATE That Council note the report by the Governance Manager to the Audit & Risk Committee Meeting dated 23 February 2024 providing an update on risk management related matters. 5. END OF FINANCIAL YEAR TIMETABLE That Council note the report by the Manager Financial Services (Acting) to the Audit & Risk Committee Meeting dated 23 February 2024 regarding Council’s preparation for the 2023/24 End of Financial Year process and Annual Financial Statements. Council Resolution Moved: Cr Tom Wegener Seconded: Cr Amelia Lorentson That the report of the Audit & Risk Committee dated 23 February 2024 be received and the recommendations therein be adopted. Carried unanimously. ORDINARY MEETING MINUTES 18 APRIL 2024 9. ORDINARY MEETING REPORTS 9.1. FINANCIAL PERFORMANCE REPORT – MARCH 2024 Council Resolution Moved: Cr Frank Wilkie Seconded: Cr Brian Stockwell That Council note the report by the Manager Financial Services (Acting) to the Ordinary Meeting dated 18 April 2024 outlining March 2024 year to date financial performance against budget, including changes to the financial performance report with the inclusion of key financial sustainability indicators. Carried unanimously. 9.2. NOOSA BOTANIC GARDENS MASTER PLAN STAKEHOLDER REFERENCE GROUP Council Resolution Moved: Cr Jessica Phillips Seconded: Cr Brian Stockwell That Council note the report by the Acting Director Infrastructure Services to the Ordinary Meeting dated 18 April 2024 regarding the establishment of the Noosa Botanic Gardens Master Plan Stakeholder Reference Group and A. Note the Terms of Reference provided at Attachment 1; and B. Appoint Cr Phillips as Chair, and Crs Lorentson and Finzel to the Noosa Botanic Gardens Master Plan Stakeholder Reference Group. Carried unanimously. 9.3. COUNCILLOR REPRESENTATION ON VARIOUS COMMITTEES, WORKING GROUPS, BOARDS AND EXTERNAL GROUPS 2024 Council Resolution Moved: Cr Karen Finzel Seconded: Cr Tom Wegener That Council note the report by the Chief Executive Officer (Acting) to the Ordinary Meeting dated 18 April 2024 and make the following Councillor appointments (noting that these supersede any prior appointments): GROUPS/COMMITTEES ESTABLISHED BY COUNCIL A. Appoint Cr Lorentson as Deputy Chair to the Local Disaster Recovery Committee, (and note that all Councillors are invited to attend as observers to the LDMG and LDRG); B. Appoint Cr Wilkie - Mayor, Cr Phillips and Cr Wegener to the Case Management Working Group; C. Appoint Cr Finzel as Chair of the Regional Arts Development Fund Committee (RADF); D. Appoint Cr Finzel as Chair of the Noosa Heritage Reference Group; ORDINARY MEETING MINUTES 18 APRIL 2024 E. Appoint Cr Lorentson as Chair, Cr Wilson and Cr Wilkie - Mayor, to the Capital Works Executive; F. Appoint Cr Wilkie - Mayor as Chair, and Cr Stockwell to the CEO Performance Review Committee; G. Appoint Cr Wilkie - Mayor and Cr Lorentson to the Teewah Cooloola Working Group; H. Appoint Cr Stockwell as Chair, Cr Finzel and Cr Wegener to the Noosa Biosphere Trails Reference Group; I. Appoint Cr Wilkie - Mayor as the Chair of the Business Round Table; J. Appoint Cr Wilkie - Mayor as Chair, and Cr Wegener and Cr Wilson to the Climate Change Response Plan Steering Group; K. Appoint Cr Phillips as Chair, and Cr Wilson to the Climate Change Response Plan Community Reference Group; L. Appoint the Cr Wilson to the Management Committee for the Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with the Sunshine Coast University (SCU); M. Appoint Cr Wegener and Cr Wilson to the Audit and Risk Committee; N. Appoint Cr Phillips as Chair and Cr Stockwell to the Noosa Drive Pathway Project Reference Group; O. Appoint Cr Wilkie - Mayor, Cr Finzel and Cr Wilson to the Housing Stakeholder Reference Group; P. Appoint Cr Wilkie - Mayor as Chair and Cr Stockwell and Cr Lorentson to the Destination Management Project Control Group (PCG); Q. Appoint Cr Wilkie - Mayor to the Regional Resource Recovery Steering Group (as part of the MOU with Gympie Council); R. Appoint Cr Phillips as Chair, Cr Lorentson and Cr Finzel to the Noosa Botanic Gardens Masterplan Stakeholders Reference Group; EXTERNAL GROUPS (not established by Council) S. Appoint Cr Stockwell as Council’s Observer on the Tourism Noosa Board; T. Appoint Cr Wegener as Council's Representative on the Noosa Biosphere Reserve Foundation Board; U. Appoint Cr Finzel to the Northern SEQ Regional Roads and Transport Group; V. Appoint Cr Stockwell to the Climate Emergency Australia National Executive Committee; W. Appoint Cr Wilkie - Mayor as Council's Representative, and Cr Stockwell - Deputy Mayor as Proxy, to the Council of Mayors (SEQ) ; X. Appoint Cr Lorentson as Council’s Representative, and Cr Wegener as Proxy, to the Council of Mayors (SEQ) Waste Working Group; Y. Appoint Cr Wilkie - Mayor to the Council of Mayors (SEQ) SEQ 2032 Legacy Working Group; Z. Appoint Cr Phillips on the Noosa World Surfing Reserve Committee. Carried unanimously. ORDINARY MEETING MINUTES 18 APRIL 2024 9.4. COUNCILLORS’ EXPENSES REIMBURSEMENT AND PROVISION OF FACILITIES POLICY Council Resolution Moved: Cr Tom Wegener Seconded: Cr Jessica Phillips That Council note the report by the Chief Executive Officer (Acting) to the Ordinary Meeting dated 18 April 2024 and adopt the updated Councillors’ Expenses Reimbursement and Provision of Facilities Policy provided at Attachment 1. Carried unanimously. 10. CONFIDENTIAL SESSION Nil. 11. PUBLIC QUESTION TIME 11.1. ANDREW MCCARTHY Question 1. Given Council election are now over, Mr Sengstock what actions have been undertaken, and/or what plans have the Council put in place to conduct a full community and stakeholder consultation on the Draft Noosa River Catchment Management Plan (NRCMP) so that Council can report back in July 2024 with a final and fully costed NRCMP in line with October 2023 procedural motion below? Answer provided by Director of Strategy and Environment The new Council has only recently been sworn in, officers are working through a very comprehensive induction program with the Councillors across a wide range of issues and projects. The Noosa River Catchment Plan being one of those, the new Council is yet to consider the next steps for the NRCMP and will do this in the coming weeks. Question 2. Is or would the Council consider a public forum as a part of the full Community Consultation process for the NRCMP? Answer provided by Director of Strategy and Environment Council will consider all appropriate methods for consultation with all stakeholders as part of any further engagement on the NRCMP. ORDINARY MEETING MINUTES 18 APRIL 2024 12. NEXT MEETING The next Ordinary Meeting will be held at Council Chambers, 9 Pelican St, Tewantin on Thursday 16 May 2024 at 5.00pm. 13. MEETING CLOSURE The meeting closed at 10:46 AM
Meeting Transcript
SPEAKER_08 00:10.940
It's just going a little slow.
SPEAKER_04 00:15.320
I have. Was just I going to say, did everyone get the message that Resolve has got an issue today as well? Results resolve's got could be an issue as pages are loading slow. So I'm assuming it hasn't started yet. I have to copy it.
Larry Sengstock 00:31.343
I told them we've got a Council members yeah I think this is gonna blow it up this video
SPEAKER_04 00:35.563
Okay yeah they just are you press that event yeah they want to start we just start that's what we're gonna get okay all
Frank Wilkie 00:42.423
Right alright, council's got to go ahead. Welcome everybody to the Ordinary Meeting Thursday the 18th of April 2024 our first of the term. I'd like to acknowledge we're meeting on the traditional lands of the Kabi Kabi People and pay my respects to the elders past, present and emerging. I note that all councils are in attendance and Councillor Lorentson is attending via Microsoft Teams. Can you hear us Amelia? I can hear everyone I loud and clear. Thank you. I'd like to move that in accordance with section 254K of the Local Government Regulation. Councillor Lorentson is approved to attend the meeting dated 18th of April 2024 via Microsoft Teams. May I have a seconder for that please? Seconder, Councillor all in favour? That's carried unanimously. Item two is the confirmation of the Minutes. We have two sets of minutes for ratification today. Moved that the Minutes of the Ordinary Meeting held on 15th February be received and confirmed. May I have a seconder? Councillor Finzel is quick off the mark again. Seconded by Councillor Finzel. All in favour? That's unanimous. Moved that the Minutes of the post-election meeting dated 8th April seconder please? Councillor Tom Wegener. Carried. Have no Mayoral Mayoral minutes. Do we have any petitions no we none. We have no notified motions, presentations, deputations. That brings us to item 8, consideration of committee reports. The first is and committee recommends that the Audit and Risk Committee recommendations relate to the Queensland Audit Office 2024 external audit plan, the QAO update, internal audit actions update and internal audit plan, risk management and the BCP end update, of financial year timetable. A mover and a seconder for the recommendation be adopted. Moved. Yes, Tom. Second. Move. Please. Thank you. Seconder, you Councillor Lorentson. All in favour? It's carried. Ordinary Meeting reports. We have four reports directed to the ordinary first is the Financial Performance Report from March 2024. We have Pauline Coles. Can you please give us a summary of the report? Sure I can. Welcome. Thank you. And I need to stand here. Yes.
Pauline Coles 03:11.500
I'm just confirming. Morning Councillors. Financial performance year to date to March. Operating revenues continue to outperform the forecast and operating expenditure continues to fall under forecast year to date. Operating revenue is $1.8 million above budget and that's driven by $1.2 million worth of interest revenue, sales goods services and $400,000 from other revenue derived from recharges. This has been offset by some lower than expected Fees and Charges from development assessments and various other areas of Council, so that has brought some down. Operating expenditure is $1.5 million underspent with the majority of that relating to employee costs resulting from vacancies and timing of recruitment for positions. Materials and services was also slightly underspent by $55,000. The report includes the quality update on the tourism and economic development expenditure as well as the legal cost summary which we provide each quarter. Overall council's operating position at March is $3 million above budget. Year to date excluding capital disaster projects Council has spent 48 of its four-year capital program which equates to $22 million of the $45.9 million program with a further $10 million committed. Respect to the QRA funded disaster program we have spent $22 million. Council's cash holdings at the end of March were $139 million with $30 million of these invested in high-yielding term deposits. Respect to the high level of cash holdings at this point in the year that's due to the cycle of rates so came in February and as the year progresses it will come down to a lower level to through June. We also received further advance of funding relating to the disaster projects of $17.6 million so that's also contributed to the higher levels of cash. This month's report also includes the quarterly dissection of cash holdings so it shows you the breakdown of our restricted and externally and working capital commitments and our surplus cash. At present we are showing $4 million in unrestricted cash that's in addition to our three-month cash cover that we retain to ensure that we're financially sustainable. Overall council's financial performance continues to be strong through to the end of the year.
Frank Wilkie 05:32.780
Thank you Pauline. I have a question. On the first page of the report, in terms of general business operating position, you referred to unconstrained funds being about $17.4 million. And then on figure 10 of the report, you referred to unrestricted funds available for future projects. Could you please describe the difference?
Pauline Coles 06:00.643
Absolutely, I can. Thank you. So in terms of the first table that you're referring to, that's just a breakdown of our current operating surplus, which we'll move through to the end of the year. And we break that into three separate sections. The first section, which we're referring to as unconstrained, is general operations, so it can be spent across the remit of all the services the council's providing. So that's why we call it unconstrained. The second one is our commercial business activities, which waste and holiday parks, so we treat them as business activities for purposes. And our last one is our unspent levies and funds. So they are restricted and have to be spent on specific purposes like the environmental, fire, or transport. So that's why we break them down. That's kind of just the breakdown in terms of the operational surface that we're showing. In the other table that you're referring to, the four million dollars that's our cash that we have available to spend on emergent works or to co-contribute to capital programs that may be eligible for grants. So it's that extra money that we can actually spend on things that we haven't already planned for.
Frank Wilkie 06:56.008
So is that more in keeping with the understanding of surplus and that sense of the word? They're probably two different things. One's an operating surplus, one's just extra cash or available cash that we have to invest in other activities that we haven't currently funded. By the end of the year it may make up part of the surplus. The reason the cash surplus is growing is actually derived from the operating surplus so as we make more if we make a profit or an operating surplus it will actually increase the cash. That's why we have that extra cash. Good to understand the difference between unconstrained and unrestricted. Thank you. Councillor's question, Tom.
Tom Wegener 07:33.615
The last term when we started four years ago there was 20 million dollars in that cash.
Pauline Coles 07:38.598
So just prior to the, sorry Through the Chair, old term we had about 20 million dollars and we paid down 10 million dollars in debt funding which was actually slightly higher than 20 million and through the term through to now as we've invested in co-funding of grant programs, emergent works and variations due to cost escalations through COVID and beyond that has come down to four million dollars at the present time.
Frank Wilkie 08:03.702
We have questions Councillors.
Amelia Lorentson 08:06.802
I have a question Pauline, hello it's Councillor Amelia Lorentson in the sky. On the report I'm referring to page one of the Financial Performance Report capital asset sustainability ratio. Its status is behind. I was just hoping that you could provide some context and firstly for the new councils in particular, how is the ratio calculated and are we adequately maintaining our assets? Are there any deficiencies in maintaining the asset base and why is it behind schedule?
Pauline Coles 08:58.487
Sure. So the asset sustainability ratio is essentially representative of how much money councils reinvesting in its existing assets, so the target is to spend 90 of our depreciation expenditure. In terms of why we flagged that as behind, they're have a multi-year program, and some of that's already pushed into next year. There's about 10 million of that. And with where we are at this point in the year, in terms of our renewal spend, so not our new spend, but it is slightly behind where we thought it would be. This number doesn't include any of the Queensland QRA projects. QRA and there is an element of renewal within those, but we haven't captured it, so we're clear that what we had planned to spend on renewal is slightly behind, but it may catch up when we do the final calculations on QRA and depending on what's been spend on those. In terms of, are we not reinvesting enough adequately? Our program actually, when we develop it, is based on achieving that 90%. So we actually prioritise those projects over new to make sure that we meet that target. So even though if we come under slightly, then those projects will roll into next year and we'll actually probably bump over. Which if you've seen, if any of you have seen the prior year's asset sustainability ratios, many of them are actually over-target and that's partly due to some of the carryovers that we've had and that may be the case as well this year.
Amelia Lorentson 10:18.648
A follow-up question. Excuse me, just and we just noted the Audit & Risk external committee report just previously. In 2023 there were recommendations from the QAO in relation to asset management related recommendations and that was aimed at improving local government sustainability. Were those recommendations or mandatory? And how had those recommendations changed our AMP practices?
Pauline Coles 11:03.691
I'm not exactly sure of what exactly that you're looking at in the report but I assume you're talking about asset management plans and that would make sure that we. Yeah, so Council does have existing asset management plans inform what we spend on assets renewal lives and we do look at that and some of the new sustainability ratios that are coming in actually kind of make them more involved in that calculation. We do report on the asset sustainability which is partly that asset management part which is we comply with every year except I think one in the last six years we've met that ratio.
Frank Wilkie 11:36.293
Thank you Pauline, thank you. Any further questions Councillor Lorentson?
Amelia Lorentson 11:42.953
Oh I do but I'll let everyone else have a chance to speak.
Frank Wilkie 11:46.913
Thank you. Yeah looks like you've got the floor. Thank you.
Amelia Lorentson 11:54.956
Pauline, in terms of the legal cost, firstly I've got a couple of questions in relation to that. I remember four years ago raising the opportunity of having an in-house Council with the then CEO and lawyer, Brett de Chastel, and we talked about benefits that, you know, it's going to provide immediate access to availability, etc. But most importantly, I think one of the reasons that we investigated this was the opportunity for cost savings. So my question is, has our in-Council appointment, has it delivered this expectation? Have we in fact had any cost savings? Or do we have an idea of which. Returning in investment, even if it's in terms of just social investment support for governance and procurement staff?
Pauline Coles 12:58.114
Okay, so in terms of the new local Council started in December, as I noted in the report. In any to date, we haven't seen a major of the legal costs. Obviously that legal counsel doesn't deal with development assessments. So that obviously will exclude then it's only included those numbers. So that's quite a stupid, but it also depends on what other legal matters are going on at the time. And there's certainly been some matters that have happened that we do need outsourcing and specialised legal advice. I am aware that the legal counsel is achieving a track and logging the work that they are working on and a lot of the time that has occurred since December has been spent on probably upskilling some of the internal staff around you know managing contracts and what they should be looking at and just reviewing what they're doing to make sure that we are compliant and managing some of those risks and also working with you know helping them get contracts as well but I think as it progresses we should hopefully see some of that reduction but it's certainly managing some of the risks of things that may not have been occurring previously that were exposing Council to some level of risk it's hard to quantify that isn't it Pauline, like you know risk, how much is it negating risk? Yeah so if you turn to the log that's been kept I think it's been about 50 hours that basically core legal work that's currently happening that didn't happen before.
Amelia Lorentson 14:23.390
I have another question in this. My last question. Materials and services, something I raise pretty much most every couple of months. Terms of consultancy services. Given that we've now appointed an in-house legal consult, is there an opportunity to explore in-house consultants? We spent heavily and rely heavily on external consultants and contractors. And my question is have we ever had a deep dive or report to Council to understand whether there is an over-reliance on consultants and where there's opportunity. Opportunities to introduce efficiencies or streamlining.
Pauline Coles 15:11.472
I'm not aware that we have brought a report to Council around a consultancy spend or having addressed or looked internal opportunity for that. I think in respect to the consultancy that Council does use, a lot of it is very specialised and very diverse. It's not sort of a main kind of theme and that's probably why you'll see that utilisation because we have very general staff. Can't be across everything and so some of it's made to actually help with vacancies so when we don't have vacancies we might use a consultant but it also requires reports for different various meetings like it might be modelling, it could be a report that underpins the Housing Strategy or informs the river plan. There's a lot of different activities that go on across Council that are very specialised so it's hard to say whether or not an in-house consulting person would be able to actually reduce that cost
Frank Wilkie 16:04.845
Thank you. Julie. Pauline while we've got our Director of regulation compliance here I've got questions about the revenue the development assessment 493 below budget building and plumbing 257 below budget local laws 197 budget can we just get a sense of the reasons why we're training below budget for those in three areas please
Richard MacGillivray 16:33.341
Through the Chair so in the development assessment space we have some large development application fees late last year and those are currently being worked on some of that money has been put into what we call unearned revenue and will be released at the end of the financial year reconciled. So there's a lot of work happening in that space at the moment there has been a slight downturn based on interest rates obviously at their peak debt at the moment so a slight slowing in the market and that's caused a slight reduction from the forecasted budget to be slightly higher than last year so slight under shooting I guess of those revenue targets based on interest rates peaking at the moment. In terms of the local law revenue we've gone through quite a big system upgrade three quarters of the way through last year and that's caused some impacts efficiencies of processing infringements and prosecutions. We're and working our way through that and have largely addressed some of those deficiencies so that's caused a bit of a reduction in that forecasted revenue the year yeah Thank you.
Frank Wilkie 17:38.939
Okay I'll move on sorry just one
Brian Stockwell 17:43.939
Yeah in operating revenue sales and goods and services waste management fees does that include payment for tax?
Pauline Coles 17:53.621
Taking stuff to the landfill and recycle sales or what does it? Yes it does yes so Through the Chair yes the sales and related exclamation to waste other disposal fees at the gates and the sale of recyclables thank you
Frank Wilkie 18:04.361
I'd like to move the report. Can we have a seconder please? Councillor Stockwell. Thank you Pauline for the report. The financial report is always extremely comprehensive and just a note for all Councillors this report has become more and added on to and reflects Councillors requests for simplified information in terms of the graphics it's provided so if you feel that where anything's missing in future please feel free to let the staff know and they're more than accommodating it provides a very open and accountable review of councils finances on a monthly basis and thank you Pauline and to your staff as well.
Brian Stockwell 18:54.148
I thought it'd be interesting to have a see how the game's changed since the beginning of the last two. So I went back and looked at the first similar report in 2020 and compared some things. And you new Councillors, you're very fortunate because we're a lot busier so you've got a lot more to do. So operating revenue in 2020, 93 million dollars. In this report in 2024,122.7, a 31 per cent increase in operating revenue. Capital 2020, 6.9 million. 2024, 30.4 million, a 340 per cent increase. Capital expenditure in 2020, 18.4 million. In this particular report, 44.4 million. So 140 expenditure. Planning and building. We just heard we're in a bit of a downturn at the moment, but in 2020, 1.73 million. In this report, 3.9 million. So 125 per cent increase. Holiday caravan parks. Now, bear in mind this first report in 2020 was in May, so there might have been one month of COVID in this, but not a huge difference. Holiday park revenue, two $2 million dollars in 2020, 3.7 million, so I think that's about 85 increase. And what I just asked about, waste disposal and recyclables. In 2020 3.5, in this report 5. Million, so 51% increase and that will be both because of increased charges related to I'm presuming tax burden of state in terms of the waste tax but also the increased revenue from recyclables. So while we're at the beginning of this term it really is important to understand. Term the business of this organisation is on has been for the last four years a really steep increase. So when you compare the budgets of yesteryear it really is a new ball game. Big thing we're going to have to do over the next couple of months is work out do we fund that through increased rates or do we find new ways to fund it cut back in what we provide in wave that's we're going to have to make in the next couple of months.
Frank Wilkie 21:25.789
Thank you Councillor Stockwell. Any other Councillors wish to speak to the motion? I'll waive my right to close. All in favour? That's carried unanimously. Thank you. Item is the Noosa Botanic Gardens Master Plan Stakeholder Housing Reference Group and we have Shaun Walsh. You can give us a summary of the report.
Shaun Walsh 21:51.084
Good morning Councillors. The preparation of a fresh master plan for the Noosa Botanic Gardens is a committed budget item for the 24-25 budget and we've put an invitation to quote out to the market and engaged a consultant to start preparing that process. The first part of the sort of formal community engagement is preparation of calling a Stakeholder Housing Reference Group which is made up of appointed Councillors and also community representatives. That will be used as a valuable sounding board for the consultants and the preparation material and it's a good initial step or stage before broader community consultation. There's of course a plan like requires as part of this preparation process. So you'll see the report recommends appointment of three Councillors including one to be Chair and also appointment of delegates from various community and stakeholder groups in and around Lake MacDonald and Cooroy.
Frank Wilkie 22:48.679
Thank someone over here. Of you? Care to put some names in there? Yes? Who are you recommending? Yes? Yeah? Okay. Jess, the names we've got set aside. Jessica Phillips? Yes.
Amelia Lorentson 23:14.479
That's Lorentson and Amelia Lorentson. Councillor Lorentson.
Frank Wilkie 23:18.059
Councillor Finzel. And Councillor Finzel.
Brian Stockwell 23:21.039
So I'm happy to move the recommendation with B reading a point. Councillor Jess Phillips as Chair and Councillors Lorentson and Finzel to the Noosa, Tewantin and Cooroy master plan Stakeholder Housing Reference Group.
Frank Wilkie 23:35.088
I'll second that. I wish to speak to the motion, Councillor Stockwell.
Brian Stockwell 23:41.997
No, I think there will be no happier group than the Noosa, Tewantin friends of gardens that this is progressing. It's something that they've been asking for number of years and it is a great asset one that it has considerable potential. For improvement as part of the master planning process and it's also a great asset for the local community having lived for many years around that area. It's good to see that we've got that mix on the Stakeholder Housing Reference Group because there'll different users with different aspirations and different needs in terms of the way they use the Botanic Gardens.
Frank Wilkie 24:17.513
Thank you. Any other speakers? I have a question to Shaun. Hi, Just in terms of staffing.
Amelia Lorentson 24:27.899
So my understanding, Emma, could be incorrect that the level of staffing at the Botanic Gardens hasn't increased much for a long period. Will the master plan and the operational plan, will that be the determining factor in informing the level of resourcing and so does that have to happen first?
Shaun Walsh 24:54.618
The master plan gives a future design direction for the site and if you think about the way Council planned resources for the hinterland adventure playground, you know, there was a design done at a budget set and then delivered and then as part of those budget decisions for construction of the new asset, Council also appointed new resources to actually manage the hinterland adventure playground, that resource is actually split between and Cooroy, the Noosa Botanic Gardens, so there is actually has been some deployment of new resources, but I think it's really important that as we plan new initiatives and we want to improve the standard of their space, need for more resources to you know fulfil that vision and maintain it is going to be critical of our discussions and part of the terms of reference for the actual master plan is funding streams about you know so it's embedded that you know that unfortunately Council doesn't have unlimited funds and how we tap into supplementary you know funds to achieve this outcome. One of the things I am interested in exploring and this is a result of my background with Roma Street Parkland we had a Memorandum of Understanding with the Grovely TAFE horticulture which actually supplied horticultural students for long-term placements free of charge to our gardens and I'm interested to see what learning and traineeship opportunities might exist on the Sunshine Coast because that would be an also a wonderful supplement to our volunteer program as well so I think we have to think really laterally and creatively about how we deploy resources to achieve the standard uplift that we're after.
Frank Wilkie 26:33.120
You're on mute Amelia. Sorry, just one last question, Shaun.
Amelia Lorentson 26:38.080
In terms of residents that live in close proximity to the Botanic Gardens, I'm just assuming that they will be also advised and be yes, welcomed? As part of this journey, I note that they're not included in the Stakeholder Housing Reference Group, but I assume there will be constant communication through project Noosa and opportunities for them to make submissions.
Shaun Walsh 27:06.818
There's no clear identifiable Lake MacDonald residents group that we could find. The closest was it the Noosa Hinterland Ratepayers Association, and we asked them for a representative, but the representative had to be in close proximity to the lake, either on Tinbeerwah or Lake MacDonald side. And I also note that the representative appointed by the Cooroy Area Residents Association is also a resident of Lake MacDonald. They live actually directly opposite the Botanic Gardens. So firstly we do have indirectly local resident representation on the Stakeholder Housing Reference Group, but secondly when we undertake the broader community consultation engagement we need to engage with all the residents through the Your Say program and also we're planning workshops. And activities on site so we can actually choreograph it so it's not the same time as the popular plant side sales as well as the music in the park so that our formal channels will engage the local community through those more
Frank Wilkie 28:09.560
Thank you. Councillor Wegener.
Tom Wegener 28:12.980
I'd just like to say congratulations to the Council for doing this, getting the botanical garden master plan up and running because it's been a long time coming, hasn't it? And I understand many, years. So when people say that nothing ever happens, well, this is happening and it's going to happen now. Be a lot of fun. Thank you. Thanks, John.
Frank Wilkie 28:36.074
Councillor Finzel.
Karen Finzel 28:37.134
Thank you. Yeah, just to reiterate what Councillor Tom has said, it is great and the community is really engaged and excited about seeing this move forward. They've waited a long time. So that's wonderful. I notice on the stakeholders group. We've got Seqwater. One representative. Can you tell us a little bit about the value that they'll bring to the table during that conversation?
Shaun Walsh 28:59.317
Just so the Councillors understand, Seqwater retain an easement which is in title over the Noosa Botanic Gardens, so whilst the land is owned by Noosa Council, they have an easement over the site. Now those easement rights give them the ability to, well they basically need to endorse any sort of site improvements ability. And building works on the site and that's written into the title of documentation. So they're you know a critical stakeholder and they'll be primarily concerned for you know retention of the quality of Lake MacDonald because it is our primary water supply for the Shire. And those concerns are legitimate and well-founded. So by having them formally on the Stakeholder Housing Reference Group we'll be able to have really good collaborative discussions and also realistic outcomes that meet both the needs of the boarder with the community in terms of quality of water supply, as well as, you know, botanical enrichment on the site and also I note that from a funding perspective Seqwater has also funded improvements in the past on the Noosa Botanic Gardens such as the shade house so you know possibly there might be an Avenue there but I can't speak on behalf of them but certainly keeping them at table in a really positive and collaborative manner I think will be to the project's benefit.
Frank Wilkie 30:11.738
Councillor Stockwell, do you wish to close?
Brian Stockwell 30:14.618
I will. I think there's some interesting points brought out there. I thought lateral thinking in terms do we get an educational element. And bring in like in Roma Street Parkland they had access to horticulture students. I'm not sure we have that course locally but we do certainly have a lot of people going through the conservation and land management which may be linked to an elements of that particularly if we increase for example the level of rarely endangered native plants like at the moment the Botanic Gardens has the part of the Macadamia Recovery Plan being cited on it because we've got a range of local endangered macadamia species in the world so to me getting this master plan will be a recipe for going out and looking at what are the new sources of support partnership and funding to drive this to be a really enhanced asset for our locals but also it will attract people who are interested in gardens and interested in the natural environment to our Shire and once again that idea of dispersing our visitation to reduce the congestion in other parts of the Shire, while not the main focus, is one element of it.
Frank Wilkie 31:30.571
Thank you. All in favour? That's unanimous. Thank you Shaun, yes congratulations Councillors, I'm sure you'll. Do a great job next is the Councillor representation on various committees, working groups, boards and external groups. COs is critical about the way we engage with key stakeholders in our community
Larry Sengstock 31:56.610
So absolutely, over the term of this Council there are a number of committees and boards and working groups that Councillors either represent the Council or represent various parties on and we need to formalise those appointments where necessary they are representing and their councils are representing the Council and the community so we've got a list there that we can go through individually I think it's probably the most appropriate to ensure that we're all comfortable with those appointments and then at end of it we can if we're all comfortable do it in one group in terms of endorsing those appointments.
Amelia Lorentson 32:45.162
They'll just have to change the recommendation had Councillor Finzel as Chair so someone will have to move it differently.
Frank Wilkie 32:53.122
Okay.
Larry Sengstock 32:56.161
One, I'll change it as we go. O'Connor, if that's okay? Do you want to read that, Larry? Yes. Okay. So if we go through it, the appointment of Councillor Lorentson as deputy Chair to the Local Disaster Recovery Committee. Note that all councils are invited to attend as observers to the LDMG and the LDRG, which is the recovery group, the management group, the local disaster management group and recovery I I'm appointing and Councillor Phillips and Wegener to the Case Management Working Group. Appoint Councillor Finzel as Chair of the Regional Arts Development Fund committee, the RADF. I Noosa Heritage Reference Group. Appoint Councillor Lorentson as Chair, Councillor Wilson and Wilkie, Mayor to the Capital Works Executive. Appoint Councillor Chair Wilkie as and Councillor Stockwell to the CEO Performance Review Committee. Appoint Councillor Wilkie and Councillor Lorentson to the Teewah Cooloola Working Group. That's available to you. Observers as well as can for Councillors. Appoint Stockwell as Chair and Councillor Finzel and Councillor Wegener to the Noosa Biosphere Trails Reference Group. I appoint Councillor Wilkie as the of the Business Round Table. Wegener and Councillor Wilson to the Climate Change Response Plan Steering Group, plan steering group, sorry. Appoint as Councillor Phillips Chair plan community reference group, appoint management committee for the Memorandum of Understanding MOU with the Sunshine Coast University, appoint. Councillor Wegener Wegener and Councillor Wilson to the Audit and Risk Committee, appoint Councillor Phillips as Chair and Councillor Stockwell to the Noosa Drive Pathway Project Reference Group, appoint Councillor Wilkie, Finzel housing Stakeholder Housing Reference Group. Councillor Wilkie appoint and Councillor Lorentson to the destination management project control to the regional resource recovery steering group as part of the MOU with Gympie Council and this is the one we need to change because we've just put that in so is we've just approved that in the previous agenda item where it's Councillor Phillips with Councillor Lorentson and Councillor Finzel as members of that Noosa committee. Botanic Gardens Master Plan Stakeholder Housing Reference Group. Then the external groups not established by Council so these are ones we appoint our Councillors to appoint Councillor Stockwell as Council observer on the Tourism Noosa board. Appoint Councillor Wegener as council's representative on the Noosa Biosphere Reserve Foundation board. Appoint Councillor Finzel to the northern SEQ regional roads and transport group. Appoint Councillor Stockwell to the Climate Emergency Australia National Executive Committee. Appoint Councillor Wilkie as council's representative and Councillor Stockwell as proxy to the Council of Mayors (SEQ), so COMSEQ. Appoint second Councillor Lorentson Wegener waste working group. Appoint Councillor Wilkie legacy or SEQ 2032 legacy working group, and so for appoint olympic legacy appoint and Councillor of Phillips on the Noosa World Surfing Reserve Committee. I think that's it.
Frank Wilkie 37:16.931
We've got no more letters, so that must be it.
Larry Sengstock 37:19.551
That worked out well.
Frank Wilkie 37:22.371
Can have a move up please- That's, yeah, so I'm any questions? Councillor Finzel, moved by Councillor Finzel, seconded by Councillor Wegener, Finzel.
Karen Finzel 37:35.750
I think this is a really exciting part of first term and how we all come together and work. Out who's going to sit where in our community in a formal capacity and observers as chairs and collaborate with our community. So I think it's fantastic. Congratulate all the Councillors on their positions on their committees and wish them every success in their new roles and really take this opportunity to thank the community for the trust that's been placing placed in us to have a sit around their tables and be part of that collaborative process, listening to what community has to say, working with key stakeholders across the Shire on a broad range of interests and decision making groups. So thank you, everybody, for your contribution.
Frank Wilkie 38:20.393
Thank you, Councillor Finzel. Any other Councillors wish to speak to the motion?
Amelia Lorentson 38:25.593
Can I ask a question Through the Chair, please? Of course. To Larry, the CEO, just in terms of clarity, every two years is there the intention of Council to revisit the committees and change appointments?
Larry Sengstock 38:45.012
That's the intention, Councillor. Lorentson. At the end of two years, we do review. There's no obligation to change, but there is opportunity to change. Thank you. Councillor Finzel. Just a question Through the Chair. To reiterate, it can be at any time, not just two years, is that correct? Yeah, if the opportunity or there's reasons for doing that. Yes, we can change at any time, but as a rule, like, at the two-year mark, we'd like to review and make sure that it's still appropriate. Thank you.
Frank Wilkie 39:20.620
Thank you. Any more questions? Councillor Finzel, you wish to close. No, thank you, Mr Chair. I think that's been said. All right, well said. I'll put the motion to those in favour. That's carried unanimously. And now move to the next item. Council expenses reimbursement and provision of facilities policy. We'll have the CEO to give us an overview of this report.
Larry Sengstock 39:51.317
Certainly. So this again is really just the council's expenses and reimbursement. The policy has been revised in April 2024 and needs the endorsement of the full Council. Essentially there's no change except for the fact that you'll see and people watching will see that all councils have got a new laptop in front of them. So we've been changing our process to use a system called Resolve which we've been using for the last 12 months or so and it just makes it far more streamlined that we're now from a security and safety point of view that we did have desktop computers but now it's having the laptop so that they're from a security point of view it's much safer for us as a group as a Council and as an organisation so and it's much more streamlined so that we're so that's is provided they as we do to all staff members in terms of the ability to have computers whilst you're not staff members but we're providing those as part of this so there's still property of Council so in doing that there's no real change there are allowances that have not been changed for many years and by providing this computer then we're not to change the amount or the allowances from previous years so that basically that balance out now going forward is how we'd like to have it represented. I think there's not much more in there that I'd like to say other than it's, up for recommendation in terms of the new policy endorsing. There's still provision for home administration, so we provide allowance for that we provide an allowance for vehicles that is your choice and there's different ways that you can use that but there's an allowance for your vehicles to do your work and your business.
Frank Wilkie 42:00.360
Um, I think that's pretty much it. Yeah so just a question Mr. CEO, the principal expense is two thousand eight hundred and eighty per annum for each Council to purchase communications devices and plans as well as printed consumables for their residences that includes phones and bills and there's a $5,000 there's five thousand dollar allowance for vehicle that's correct
Larry Sengstock 42:28.654
That's correct in that two thousand eight hundred ninety dollars is what I'm referring to as has not changed for a number of years so rather than increase that with providing new laptops and Council this property yeah the laptops remain Council property that's right yeah questions for the CEO anyone
Frank Wilkie 42:55.208
Move we have a mover Councillor Wegener seconded Councillor Phillips I'm
SPEAKER_05 43:02.768
Very happy about the home expenses because I'm going to buy a new printer and I've just uncovered my
Frank Wilkie 43:12.743
Thank you very much and obviously it
Tom Wegener 43:14.883
Really really helps the home end of the car so thank you very much thank you.
Frank Wilkie 43:19.523
Any other Councillors wish to speak to the motion? Those in favour? Carry unanimously. Now have no confidential items. We have a public question time. We have submission of two questions to from Andrew McCarthy. Is not here today so our CEO, Larry, will read out the questions on his behalf. The answers have been provided by our Director Strategy & Environment. They will be read by our Acting CEO, Larry Sengstock. Thank you, Larry.
Larry Sengstock 43:48.600
You Mr Mayor um just before starting I just want to make the point that because these are questions and answers and we're not making any decisions, so there's no need for any conflict of interest declarations prior to me addressing these questions. Given Council elections are now over, Mr Sengstock, what actions have been undertaken and/or what plans have the Council put in place to conduct a full community and stakeholder consultation on the draft Noosa River Catchment Management Plan so that Council can report back in July 2024 a final and fully costed plan in play in line with October 2023's procedural motion below. The answer there as provided by our Director is the new Council has only recently been sworn in. Officers are working through a very comprehensive induction program with the Councillors across a wide range of issues and projects. Noosa River Catchment Management Plan being one of those the new Council is yet to consider the next steps for the plan and will do this in the coming weeks. Question two is it is or would the Council consider a public forum as part of the full community consultation process for the Noosa River Catchment Management Plan? The answer provided is Council will consider all appropriate methods for consultation with as part of any further furthering engagement process. On management plan
Frank Wilkie 45:15.483
Thank you thank you that brings us to the end of the agenda the next Ordinary Meeting will be 5pm on Thursday 16th of May 2024 congratulations Councillors on the first ordinary formal meeting of the term normally this would have the services and organisers gone through the Planning & Environment Committee Services & Organisation Committee the General Committee where the items of significance or contention are discussed more fully before coming to this formal meeting where the decisions of the local government are made so I declare the meeting closed at 10:46 and thank you for those in attendance Councillors
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